WordPress 2.5 Delayed a Week: According to this milestone in the WordPress Trac, 2.5 is delayed by a week or even more. There is a lot of work being done on styling, bug fixes and open tickets and even though the milestone is delayed to 3/17/08, a well polished release will be more appreciated and will be better for the community than a rush to release.
In the meantime, Lorelle is tapping her feet waiting for the new release and Six Apart is trying to make waves in the wake of WordPress 2.5. Ozh is happy to have the chance to fix some more plugins, Tadd provides some sage advice to people complaining about the wait. I am very excited about this release and what it brings to the table and will be upgrading as soon as I can.
While we are on the subject, in reading through the comments left on Jeff’s post yesterday, we hope we did not cause any added confusion to the impending release. WordPress has gotten more complex since the 1.2 days but that is expected of code reaching a higher level of maturity. However, along with the complexity, WordPress has also gained much anticipated features, has been keeping up and in many cases, leading publishing technology and has become a beacon of success in the blogging and Open Source communities. A lot of the technology that is in 2.5 never existed back when WordPress was forked out of b2 and much of the code and many of the advances have come about due to the hard work of the developers, contributors and supporters of WordPress. Hundreds of developers, contributors and well wishers help shape WordPress and the community is in a very large part responsible for the wonderful peice of software it is today.
The WordPress developers have a feel for their code and they will know when they are ready to put it into production/release. This model creates some confusion because of the nature of the development cycle, but the delaying of the release date and the tweaking and fixing till a comfort level is reached, is not a bad thing at all. On the contrary, if followed with due diligence and with care, this development model can help put together some really good code and it works well in the Open Source (or any shared development) environment. Strict deadlines are more detrimental than a constant update model which has been proven to be more productive and easier to manage.
I have observed and participated in WordPress development from close and afar for many years and though the development cycle might seem disconcerting, I can safely tell you that this effort will bear delicious fruit for sure.
Thanks for being a user and a supporter of WordPress. Here is to a successful WordPress 2.5 in the coming weeks!
I can’t wait more… 🙁
But, is for the good of the WP… don’t care ^^
You forgot to comment in your otherwise interesting piece, above, on the number of people who have rejected the admin page out of hand, and the fact that no one on the development side seems to be too interested in these objections.
It’s good to be sure that a stable and secure version comes out. A week isn’t that long. An ounce of prevention…
I hope they will do sth with dashboard colors and general appearance of admin pages. Gloomy blue is awful (the light blue one was fine). Large tables for Recent Comments, Incoming Links etc. are horrible and whole dashboard is one big mistake… It’s less useful than the one from WP 2.3…
I`m using trunk on my site and 2.5 seems to get really great.. i like the new admin style integrated yesterday and getting better even hour to hour.. really great work the guys in trunk are doing!
sincerely
sara
wordpressoholic 😉
Hopefully some of the poorly written queries (such as the main display cycle query that includes a pretty silly unique with a left join) will be fixed. Adding features is great. Making the existing features actually work when you get more than 5 visitors a day to your blog is key.
So that explains why the website was still showing 2.3.whatever after your ‘here it comes’ post the other day 😛
Still, I’d rather have a working release in a week’s time than a buggy release now.
I’d rather have a working release in a week’s time than a buggy release now, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to lie on the floor and kick my feet like a toddler having a tantrum 😀
Everyone indeed knows wordpress is opensource and great software.
I guess what disappoints most fans (because those comments are left by die-hard fans, not regular users) are those “microsoft” kind of marketing tricks to keep hype high on the software without a real meaning.
There is no need to publicize a roadmap if the first thing you’re gonna doing after that roadmap is to not follow that. Like skipping the first release “because it’s christmas” (???!?), and then even skipping a version number without a reason … then dodging another deadline and the like. That’s plain childish
Not the missing release, but the roadmap I mean.
Just release the software when you’re ready, and it will be great as usual 😉 don’t resort to low tricks …
imho
I would have preferred that it came out this week because I have time to upgrade, but it definitely isn’t ready yet. I guess I’ll just go update some of my plugins.
As wordpress matures, like any other programming job, the code needs to be regularily optimized, instead of just added on bit by bit, otherwise you get whats called “bloated code” after awhile. I think WordPress is about to the stage where it needs to look at its code on an “overall” level, and think about how to start from scratch so to speak, which I believe would fix alot of the issues being reported. at least thats been my opinion since the early 2.0 days anyway.
not saying WordPress is anywhere near bloatware, but I’m just saying, I think they need to take a step back, and think about optimizing the code a bit, instead of just adding on and adding on and fixing minor things here and there.
regarding the admin area, I’ve always said for years now, that the admin area should be “skinnable” just like the theme system is, so when people complain about the layout of the admin area, they can style it themselves using themes that are built into the current theme engine.
for example, I’ve never liked the fact that the admin area is so hard to read for people with visual disabilities, just like most of the pre-built themes are (thats why I wrote my own) but that isn’t a problem at all if they would make the admin area themeable, and make sure the html and CSS stays xhtml 1.0 compliant.
Well, on the bright side, I’ll have some extra time to make sure 2.5 doesn’t break my blog. As for the admin area problems, I plan on using Dean Robinson’s Fluency Admin, which I think looks pretty sharp. Definitely looking forward to 2.5.
Lovely..More time, better work. I love wordpress anyways!
To everyone complaining about the wait (not so much here but you should see some other sites) instead of whining why not help out? Get on the wp-testers mailing list. grab the latest copy from SVN, install it locally and join the bug hunt! 🙂
Well I am a bit disappointed, but then was all cheered up when you said that the release would end up more polished. Makes sense. Go for it. It’s only a week. I think I can wait a week more! 🙂
First I will say I am a bit concerned regarding the hype that seems to be surrounding this release. It has been delayed by three months and now it is further delayed. As a user of WP it makes me wonder if WP’s staff has undertaken too much and if breaking the release into smaller components would have been a wiser choice. Furthermore seeing the delay due to bugs makes me wonder how stable this release is going to be and how many more problems I will have with it.
In the three months that this has been developed it is my hope that the developers have realized how poorly planned the inital admin panel was and how much extra work it would create.
If the panel is too burdensome to use or it is full of bugs then most likely I will stop using Word Press.
The one thing that I am not looking forward to is the admin panel. Has anyone other than those who work for the company, own the company, or promote Dean Robinson’s fluency admin know of any issues with it? Can anyone not associated with the company provide an object assessment of it? Reason for asking is the problem I find with plugins for WordPress many of them do not work with WordPress or are incompatible with other plug-ins. I even had one release overwrite my database due to the fact there was an error in how the code was written but I will not go there.
I am pleased with this anouncement, because it shows that quality is considered being more important than a time schedule.
I agree with John. Roadmaps are created for hype. Those who are really serious about making good software would take ample testing time and release it only when it is ready. Delays are bad for reputation too. But when you have a monopoly, it is plain and simple hype and a pubilicity stunt.
Delayed? Good! Shows that quality comes before deadlines. Especially since WordPress.org never gives out deadlines. For those who yell “hype”, the release date is always tentative (read: When it’s ready and not before) and that has always been repeatedly announced before any release, no set date for any release. And there’s no media hype when it comes to WordPress. Not once have I seen any headline about a new major release of WordPress showing up on Google News. 😛
Seriously folks, stop complaining about the looks of the admin…it ain’t finished yet. Wait until the release, then complain. In the meantime do like Len suggests and join the wp-testers mailing list and put your opinions where they count (just make sure your just not complaining just for the sake of complaining), do up your own local WordPress Sandbox (XAMPP for Windows is a good start for Windows users), download from SVN, Trunk or even the nightly builds and pound on it yourself. It’s one of those community things you know. 😀
By the way, Putting the classic blue back into the admin looks good.
I know people seem to be disappointed, but it’ll be worth the wait though! There’s still a ton of testing and fixing going on with the 2.5-beta1. And not just with the redesign of the control panel, but other features, as well as core related issues. Patience is virtue!
Honestly, I’m not surprised that they changed the date. It wouldn’t be a big release from WP without pushing the date back a few times.
I’m not saying I’m not disappointed, but I can definitely say that I’m not shocked.
I’d rather a new version of WordPress was a week or a month late and work correctly than be buggy! Don’t we get enough of that with other programs?! As a non-programmer and a WordPress user, I am just grateful people out there want to tinker with the code and create such a wonderful tool for everyone to use on the web! Keep up the good work everyone who has ever contributed to WordPress (that includes all the theme and plugin creators) thanks!
Beta-tester 4tw
To put it in context, I’ve been patiently waiting for SAS 9.2 since they demoed the new features in March 2006. And that’s a (very) commercial product.
Push it out the door and then release 2.5.1 shortly thereafter or wait a little while longer and put the final touches on 2.5.0? Each choice if you ask me.
Is this a colorscheme changer, for the adminpanel? 😀 http://trac.wordpress.org/timeline – Take a look at point 03/12/08 01:07.
Also, take a look at point 03/11/08 21:06. 😀
I agree that it is best not to rush the release of a buggy product to meet a deadline. It is better to have it well tested and debugged. Releasing a buggy product will produce far more bad press than a good product will produce good press.
I will have to disagree with you Kirk M and others regarding hype and if deadlines actually existed.
There are some here who believe delays may indicate quality over deadlines. The release of Word Press 2.4 was due to be released sometime in December after some delay (If remember correctly as I will have to search for it) and an announcement was made that it was not going to be happening and that 2.5 would be released on 10 March 2008. Now there is a further announcement that 2.5 will be released on 17 March 2008.
For me it also demonstrates poor planning and not considering all factors that may influence a release. This is symptomatic of the issues that I have encountered with using WordPress especially when it comes to themes and plug-ins that are available for download from WordPress’s site. Also it is symptomatic of the issues that have pushed back the release by at least three months (2.3 to 2.5). In my opinion the release should have been broken down into a major release 2.5 and then followed by smaller release (2.5.1, 2.5.2 …) once the other issues were resolved.
In my replies when I stated delays and hype I was specifically referring to the information about 2.4 and 2.5 that showed up on my Dashboard on Word Press. For me when I say hype it is in essence the promotion of the release by Word Press that showed up my Dashboard which includes information regarding the release date, information regarding what is going to be contained in the release and the improvements being made.
The point that I am making is stating changes to release and promoting the release does amount to an implied deadline. If Word Press does not want people expecting a release at a certain time then Word Press needs to stop promoting releases and send out an announcement once a release has been made available. By promoting a release it builds expectations and if those expectations are not meant it does take away confidence in the product. For those who argue there has not been a deadline or quality over quality the one point you do forget that Word Press has created (intentionally or not) expectations regarding this release. Unfortunately they have not delivered on their statements regarding the release of this product and have not done anything to address user concerns.
I will wait, if and when, until 2.5 arrive to make my final determination. However I will have to say I am disappointed in the delays and the delays have not given me the confidence in this release. It is my hope by responding Word Press and others will begin to understand there is a connection between statements and confidence. If there is not confidence in the release then people will complain.
Finally for those who say that we should be testing the release and reporting bugs. Without having a test script, a useable location where Word Press can be tested in isolation and testing in a systematic way in my opinion does not provide useable results. Reason for that is each person’s computer is different, each server is different, each person has different software, and hardware. This means results may be due the person’s configuration and not Word Press. So in essence bugs being reported may be due to the person’s configuration and not Word Press.
I think it is still a good news as we need a bug-free and stable version then one week or more is ok
Ok, raise your hands if you’ve ever developed a robust blogging/CMS!
What? No hands?
Now, I understand the frustration. It was built up. Everyone got excited. And they ended up pushing dates back. It’s not a marketing hype – it’s called real life. They take what time they have, spread jobs around and work as fast as they can.
And a road map is a brilliant and ethical process. In any large project, you need a road map to show the milestones. Perhaps the only mistake for the WordPress team was to make it open for all to see since they get nothing but flack for not sticking to the strict schedule.
Which, I might add, is not entirely possible with the score of this project.
I’m happy that they’re taking their time. Thrilled that they’re NOT like Microsoft and release buggy software (Windows ME anyone?) and then a slew of fixes later. I’m proud to be a WordPress user, and no matter how long it takes them to get things rolled out – I’ll stay around.
So you don’t like the admin? Code another one! You can’t code? Get a plugin! There are a lot of admin themes out there. Use one of those. I use Tiger Style. I love it. Works great.
As stated by a few wise members above – rather than complain, volunteer to help out. Bug hunt. That’s always useful.
Keep up the good work team.
Thanks for the update. For the record I’d MUCH rather have to wait a couple of weeks for a clean release. Nothing more frustrating than upgrading to a new release to find a whole raft of bugs. That’s Microsoft’s speciality.
Cheers,
Martin.
Fred, (and anyone else that’s interested)
Good points all around Sir. Brings up some salient points here so let’s take a look (forgive the long comment please).
Okay, what I agree with:
First, WordPress delayed then canceled version 2.4 outright so they would have more time to work on this major milestone (pick whatever reasons you like). This tells me that the developers simply bit off more than they could chew for the given amount of time between major milestones. Now they have to delay the release a week to finish it off. The mistake here in my opinion is not the delays so to speak but when WordPress first announced that they were going to pursue a regular timely release schedule which, in the world of software both paid for and open source, is something you definitely should not state. What you might call a good lesson in objectivity to be had here.
Secondly, You are absolutely correct that an organized testing plan and script needs to be provided for those who are willing to run "the latest build/Trunk" through the wringer. Organized, scheduled and scripted test plans and regular "Bug Hunts" in order to find where the majority of the problems lie etc. I’ll use Mozilla as a comparison. For users signed up with their testing program, Mozilla provides all the above in order to make sure all the folks who are testing are on the same track. That doesn’t mean that each tester has the same setup, not at all, which is one of the many points of the "test days" and the like which is one of the many reasons that programs like Firefox works on so many different setups/platforms. They also provide Mozillazine Forums and Bugzilla (WordPress Trac fills this roll) for all "real time" problems and suggestions that crop up. As the WordPress software matures, WordPress.org needs to mature also. The organization is ironically lagging behind their own software in this respect. WordPress could take a lesson from their open source cousin, Mozilla in this respect.
Now what I don’t agree with: 😉
One of the biggest understandable mistakes users make on what they see in the Dashboard is that they believe that the news items that run along the bottom actually has something to do directly with official announcements from the WordPress and/or the developers. The truth of the matter is, it doesn’t. Those news items come from "WordPress Planet" which basically amounts to a WordPress news aggregator and although some of those site authors may actually do some developing for WordPress in the likes of themes, plugins or actual work on the WP code, they are not necessarily "the developers" and certainly not any sort of WordPress marketers. The official WordPress developers announcements are listed within the area that currently states that WordPress version 2.3.3 has been released. That’s it.
I can understand the confusion here since article titles listed in WordPress Planet can be easily construed as official announcements and with version 2.5, the user will be able to easily choose another feed for that space or choose to have none at all. In light of that though, WordPress needs to be much more forthcoming in the official developer’s blog as how things are going with the next scheduled Milestone and security releases, incorporate organized test plans complete with scripted testing, bug hunt days etc as you point out plus a dedicated forum (not in the format of the current support forum but something more standard that people will recognize) for those wish to keep their hands in the testing during and between Milestone releases.
Dissenting viewpoints always welcome
@Tadd #60 – I’m going to use your sum-up in #60, to make a couple points that apply much more broadly. Not to pick on your contribution…
The problem with the delay of v2.5 is not that any of us who been around much, or who are pay close attention as life goes along, think that WordPress & Co really have the capacity to predict & deliver ongoing software upgrades on a schedule. They don’t, never did and ain’t gonna. We know that.
The problem that is worth noting, is that those in the know let on weeks ago that the March 10 release of v2.5 was essentially a done-deal, feature-freeze, tidy up loose ends … um, I think the word was “polish”.
As it came down to the wire, we did not get an update or correction. Some of us were making material plans, based on a forecast which WP-central by then (the week or so before March 10) knew full well was not going to happen.
Furthermore, we have no reason to think that v2.5 is not the goal-set for v2.4, which was delayed and then canceled. Did they just strip out what they wanted/needed to do, for v2.4? Not likely.
So now, after months of delay and a complete cycle-skip, it turns out that v2.4 (re-branded as v2.5) still can’t go out the door.
What is really the problem? Well, we are left with no reliable updates or assessments, so what we have is open speculation. Oh, sure, we get links to blog-entries by authoritative insiders … but they don’t tell us the real scoop, and very pointedly, they do not take up any elephants standing in the middle of the living room.
Here is my speculation (it is now Official Speculation Season, folks): We got close to the hoped-for release-date (it is in reality never any better than hoped-for) and it got obvious that what needed to happen, wasn’t going to happen. At that juncture, it became time to fall back & punt, to retreat to a workable position, without having achieved key parts of the goal-set.
And that’s fine too, really. It happens. However, it does call into question that the process is transparent. It quite evidently is not. Not fully.
Matt Mullenweg provides a steady stream of mentions of very big names – like eBay – adopting WordPress. Plainly, it is a good thing and an important thing, to make the product attractive and suitable, for … frankly, the biggest names on Earth. It is possible that trying to meet a market that includes The New York Times and General Motors, requires an element of discretion. If that’s the case, it could well be understandable … but it does amount to a limitation on “openness”.
We don’t know why v2.4 was delayed, then canceled, nor why the new date for v2.4 as v2.5 can’t happen either. I am personally getting reluctant to go read yet another authoritative appraisal of the state of development of the WordPress product. I am having to admit, that these contributions are becoming difficult to discern from ‘happy-talk’, ‘cheerleading’.
WordPress is a great product. Absolutely. There is not doubt. Matt Mullenweg & Team have done a spectacular job & service. But doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty of room for questions, and it doesn’t mean the process is open or transparent in important & key respects.
Clearly as mud, it isn’t.
I’m not quite sure what you’re actually insinuating. From the sounds of it you’re insinuating that 2.4 and the now delayed 2.5 are for the corporate blogs and are being delayed to the public. The accusation that Matt & team are purposely holding back for those big wigs. Which, really, is laughable.
If this ISN’T what you’re saying, well – I have no clue what you are saying in the end.
All in all, it’s Open Source. Yeah, we can ask questions – and should ask questions. But when the questions are more accusatory than actual inquiries then things get hair and it changes from Open Source discussion to demands on something no one here pays for. I’m all progression – but why whine about it when it doesn’t happen when it was planned or when people want it to happen?
Call me crazy, but I’m never as eager as a lot of you folks to install any piece of code. I usually wait a few weeks to see what breaks on other people’s sites or for the usually inevitable 2.5.1 or what have you. But that’s okay, um…you guys go first. I’ll be *right* behind you. Honest. 🙂
I know they set release dates and such, but people need to realize, there’s only a small handful of folks (Matt, Ryan, Westi and maybe a couple others) doing (bug fix) patch commits. The more serious patch commits are handled by the head two guys (Matt and Ryan), and the less severe (fix/enhancement) patches are handled by the other folks.
Besides handling these patches and such, they are also doing other things in real life. Release dates are not purposely postponed, there are legitimate reasons behind WHY they were postponed.
a) Real life circumstances comes first.
b) Work on the software. Add more features, handle admin redesign, tweaking, and getting the software as bug-free as possible while it’s still in development (alpha/beta/RC) state.
c) Real life circumstances comes first.
d) Testing that software repeatedly while it’s still in development, then fix those bugs as well as more that are discovered.
e) When the developers feel most bugs are squashed, most features were added, most tweaking were handled as well… then they up the version of it to another “state”. Either it be beta1, beta2, RC1, RC2… what-not.
f) Then after they decide where it sits version wise, stability wise and such… it gets closer and closer to release, all while it’s still being tested and so forth. This process is very important.
g) Then once they feel the product is worthy and as bug-free as possible, it makes it out the door to public. Sometimes littler bugs are overlooked until a 2.5.1 release, but all in all… the above steps and such are important. I’d rather have a version that’s 98% stable and decent then a crappy arse one where most users spend 98% of their time in the support forums…
Oh, and by the way… As Matt stated in the wp-testers email list.
“A combo of Ryan being out sick for a week and a few other factors such as SxSW and some media library wonkiness made it make sense to leave this one in the oven for a bit more.
That said, it’s feeling very stable and I’ve been using it on my own blog for a while.”
It WILL be going out the door soon. =D
Delayed? I didn’t even notice. It’ll be ready when it’s ready.
I usually wait a few days and test locally first anyway. Better than risking downtime due to plugin incompatibilities, etc.
Maybe I missed something, w(here)tf is 2.4? I though it was released instead 2.5, anybody knows the reason?
Can’t wait!!